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October 12, 2010

1. Call to Order

Mayor Ron Sandack called the regular meeting of the Village Council of the Village of Downers Grove to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers of the Downers Grove Village Hall.

Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag

Mayor Sandack led those present in the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

2. Roll Call

 P resent: Commissioner Marilyn Schnell, Commissioner Bob Barnett, Commissioner William Waldack, Commissioner Sean P. Durkin, Commissioner Bruce E. Beckman, Commissioner Geoff Neustadt and Mayor Ron Sandack  Non Voting: Village Manager David Fieldman, Village Attorney Enza Petrarca and Village Clerk April Holden  T he Council meeting is broadcast over the local FM radio station, WDGC.  In addition, a tape recording and videotape of the meeting are being made using Village owned equipment.  The videotape of the meeting will be used for later rebroadcast of the Council meeting over the Village cable television Channel 6.

The Council will follow the rules of conduct for this meeting as provided in Sec. 2.5 of the Downers Grove Municipal Code.  These offer the public the opportunity to comment at several points in the meeting.  First, immediately following approval of the minutes of the past meetings, an opportunity will be given for public comments and questions of a general matter.  If a public hearing is scheduled for this meeting, an opportunity is given for public comments and questions related to the subject of the hearing.  Finally, an opportunity is given for public comments and questions on items appearing on the Consent Agenda, the Active Agenda and the First Reading.

The presiding officer will ask, at the appropriate time, if there are any comments from the public.  If anyone wishes to speak, the individual should raise their hand to be recognized and, after acknowledgment from the presiding officer, approach the microphone and state their name and address.  Remarks should be limited to five minutes, and asked that individuals refrain from making repetitive statements.

Mayor Sandack said there are agendas located on either side of the Council Chambers, and he invited the audience to pick up an agenda and follow the progress of the Council meeting.

3. Minutes of Council Meetings

Budget Workshop - October 2, 2010  Council Meeting - October 5, 2010 There being no additions or corrections to the minutes, Mayor Sandack said they would be filed as submitted.

Capital Projects Update

Public Works Director Nan Newlon provided a summary of monthly activities on capital projects.  This information is also on the Village's website.  Ms. Newlon said that there are two sidewalk projects underway and the replacement sidewalk work is completed.  Construction of sidewalks is taking place on Janet, Northcott and Seeley.  She indicated that there were two major road maintenance contracts thus year. Contract A has been wrapped up.  Contract B is underway and 40% to 50% complete.  They will work in the area of 5th to 8th Streets just west of Cumnor in the next couple of weeks.  She said that they have been running into issues related to the updated ADA regulations. Anything more than a resurface requires intersection compliance with the ADA.  This involves many old streets that have existing structures at the intersections.  As the Village goes through each project they are attempting to work around these structures such as trees, driveways, etc. in the intersections to be compliant with minimal impact.  In addition, they are working on a preventive seal project, and pavement patching.  The patching project begins tomorrow and should be completed within a week.  Ms. Newlon said that watermain repairs for excavations will begin tomorrow.  Work on the bike path is ongoing.

With regard to stormwater, Ms. Newlon said that the 59th Street stream stabilization project was completed today.  Additional projects are Lacey Creek Streambank Stabilization Project, Benton Avenue, and 8th and Cumnor drainage improvements. Washington Street, Sherman Street and Prospect projects are all high priorities and underway as WIIP items.  The 2010 watermain improvement projects including Sheldon, Stanley, and School Street are completed.  One last adjustment on School Street is the subject of a change order this evening and involves material that will need special handling.

Commissioner Beckman inquired about Washington Street, and how long Washington Street will be closed to traffic.  Ms. Newlon said they expect it to be closed about one week.

Commissioner Durkin commented about the ADA requirements, and asked that residents directly affected be notified as to the requirements.  He also asked that information be placed on the website in reference to this.  Many residents are making inquiries about this.  He also questioned replacement sod, why there was such a delay, and why they're watering dead grass.  Ms. Newlon replied that she would check with the Project Manager, saying it is the contractor's responsibility to make sure that it grows, or is replaced if necessary.

4. Public Comments - General Comments on Matters Not Appearing on Tonight's Agenda

 1 .  Tammi Karam commented on parking in the downtown area, saying that one day there were 52 tickets issued in the downtown area.  Five of those were super tickets.  She believes ticketing once a week is not sufficient and suggested increasing fines.  She also noticed an employee wiping chalk off of their tires. She called this information in, and in her opinion this should be a major violation.  If people know enforcement officers are coming more than once a week they may pay closer attention to the regulations.

The Mayor asked for clarification as to whether wiping off the chalk is a violation.  The Police Chief said he would look into this matter.

2. Nicholas Janowitz, 4225 Lacey Road, said he was present with his neighbors beause their neighborhood has turned into an industrial neighborhood.  There is an industrial company about 40 feet from his house, Donegal Excavating and Crana Concrete, that owns numerous dump trunks.  The residents want to know the next plan of action.  Obviously zoning is the issue.  The area is zoned residential.  Mr. Janowitz mentioned the level of noise, safety, dust, etc.  He indicated that they called the police and were told that there was nothing they could do because the owner has some type of paperwork that allows these activities.  Property values have significantly decreased.  His baby wakes up in the middle of the night because at 3:00 a.m. they are running trucks out of the site.  He added that the residents have video of the activities.  He has been told that the company disposes of waste on the site.  Mr. Janowitz said that before residents take other actions such as notifying the newspapers or calling the EPA, they want to know the next step of action.  He then asked as to occupancy certification and asked how this could have happened.

Mayor Sandack said that the Council is not aware of this.

Village Manager Dave Fieldman said the property was annexed in the 1990s.  There is a court order that allows it to continue to operate in this way.  The property is 4240 Lacey Road.  He will be happy to work with the homeowners.

Mayor Sandack said he would like to see the court order, and he will drive by the area tomorrow. He asked for a map of the location and surrounding area.

Village Attorney Enza Petrarca said once the property was annexed, the Village tried to impose its own zoning unsuccessfully, because of the court order.

Mayor Sandack said staff will provide information to the residents, and then the Village will try to find out what the options might be.

3.  Chris Fregeau, 1918 Elmore Avenue, said it was exciting to see the downtown so vibrant last weekend.  She said it is a collective effort of many people.  Ms. Fregeau said she spends time in other communities and doesn't see the activity that exists in Downers Grove.  She thanked everyone for their efforts in keeping the downtown area vibrant.

4.  Dr. Gordon Goodman, 5834 Middaugh, asked about the status of the Environmental Concerns Commission and its staffing. The last agenda posted is for June, and the last minutes are from February.  Staff's liaison is Mr. Dieter and he has left the Village.

Mr. Fieldman said that Mr. Dieter's replacement was present at this meeting.  Her name is Allison Alonzo.  She has a MA from NIU, a degree in planning from the University of Illinois, and five years experience with the City of Naperville.

5.  Ernest Anderson, 1723 Janet Street, said that he wanted to add to Mr. Janowitz' comments.  He pointed out that this business is in a residential neighborhood.  The property itself is zoned residential in a report from 2009.  He added that a large amount of semi trucks and fuel tankers are parked on this property frequently.  In addition, there is a constant dust storm in the whole neighborhood caused by operating back hoes, excavators, etc.  It creates a dust storm in the whole neighborhood. They have photographs of this happening throughout the whole day.  There are skid marks along Lacey Road from Ogden Avenue.  He explained that before this business, it was an office building. This facility took down several trees in order to allow parking for more vehicles.  He said that something needs to be done as this is a major safety issue.  The EPA has regulations against nuisance dust.  Mr. Anderson said that this does not belong in Downers Grove.  It is a major safety issue for the neighbors and children, and they are inhaling the dust.  Mr. Anderson said that some neighbors met one-on-one with the owners of the facility, and the owner has met with the Police Department and Code Enforcement.  He says he will comply and does not comply and he has no respect for the residents or the Village of Downers Grove.

The Mayor thanked the residents for their comments, and reminded them that this is the first time the Council has heard about this.

6.  Another neighbor spoke saying this operation is not a good fit for the Village.  He is a 30-year resident of the Village.  There are big trucks coming up and down the street, not basic delivery trucks, like UPS.  He also referenced the noise they can hear inside their own yards, including the constant beeping back-up signal from the trucks.  The Police Department has come out and talked to the owners.  Residents refer to this as The Nightmare on Janet Street.  The resident said that the owner is not trustworthy.  The Village has a noise ordinance, yet the gate is kept open 24 hours per day.  Jeff O'Brien of the Village told him that gravel is not to be hauled out of there, but there is a large mound in the yard.  The volume of trucks is high, and residents have no peace and quiet in their neighborhood.  The owner does not adhere to the Code.  Some of the options include restricting hours and having equipment housed off the property.  This resident counted 15 trucks one day in the lot.  He believes they are fueling the trucks at this location as well.  He asked for the Council's help, saying the residents are trapped by the court order.  The owner is not a good steward of the land or the neighborhood.

Mayor Sandack responded that the Council will follow-up on this with staff, and added that if there is a court order, the Village may be hamstrung.  How they operate their business still seems to be within the purview of the Village's rules.  He said that he, his colleagues and the staff need to get caught up with the facts regarding the concerns expressed about the business.

7.  Mr. Janowitz asked for a timeline as to when the neighbors should expect additional information.   Mr. Fieldman said that staff would respond by Friday to the Council and the residents.

5. Public Hearings

6. Consent Agenda

The Mayor said item C., a resolution amending a Village Council policy regarding administration of the Downers Grove Adopt-A-Highway program, has been removed from tonight's Consent Agenda.  He asked for a motion to approve the Consent Agenda as amended.

BIL 00-04282 A.  List of Bills Payable:  No. 5856, October 12, 2010

Sponsors: Accounting A motion was made to Approve this file on the Consent Agenda. Indexes: N/A

RES 00-04278 B.  Resolution:  Authorize an Amendment to an Agreement with Houseal Lavigne Associates, LLC

Sponsors: Community Development


RESOLUTION 2010-78 A motion was made to Pass this file on the Consent Agenda. Indexes: Comprehensive Plan

RES 00-04284 D.  Resolution:  Authorize Participation in the Illinois Safe Routes to School Program

Sponsors: Public Works


RESOLUTION 2010-80 A motion was made to Pass this file on the Consent Agenda. Indexes: Illinois Safe Route to School Program

MOT 00-04285 E.  Motion:  Authorize a Change Order for $27,998.40 to J. Congdon Sewer Service, Inc., Carol Stream, IL, for 2010 Water Main Improvements  

Sponsors: Public Works A motion was made to Authorize this file on the Consent Agenda. Indexes: Water Main Improvements

MOT 00-04292 F.  Note Receipt of Minutes of Boards and Commissions

Summary of Item: Comprehensive Planning Ad Hoc Committee - August 24, 2010

Plan Commission - July 12, 2010 and September 13, 2010 A motion was made to Note Receipt Of this file on the Consent Agenda. Indexes: Boards and Commissions Minutes Passed The Consent Agenda

The Consent Agenda was passed as amended. A motion was made by Commissioner Schnell, seconded by Commissioner Barnett, that the consent agenda be passed. The motion carried by the following vote: Votes: Y ea: Commissioner Schnell, Commissioner Barnett, Commissioner Waldack, Commissioner Durkin, Commissioner Beckman, Commissioner Neustadt and Mayor Sandack

7. Active Agenda

ORD 00-04281 A.  Ordinance:  Provide for the Issuance of One or More Series of General Obligation Refunding Bonds of the Village of Downers Grove

Sponsors: Finance

Summary of Item: This authorizes bond refundings pursuant to specific parameters.


ORDINANCE NO. 5154 A motion was made by Commissioner Schnell, seconded by Commissioner Barnett, to Adopt this file.  Mayor Sandack declared the motion carried by the following vote: Votes: Y ea: Commissioner Schnell, Commissioner Barnett, Commissioner Waldack, Commissioner Durkin, Commissioner Beckman, Commissioner Neustadt and Mayor Sandack  Indexes: Bond Issue, General Obligation Bond - Refund

ORD 00-04273 B.  Ordinance:  Amend Certain Administrative Fees - Police Department

Sponsors: Manager's Office

Summary of Item: This amends the Municipal Code regarding Village user-fees, licenses and fines, and corrects code reference inconsistencies.


ORDINANCE NO. 5155 Mayor Sandack said this item touches on the comments made by Ms. Karam's earlier in the meeting.  It is an ongoing problem in the downtown area.  A motion was made by Commissioner Barnett, seconded by Commissioner Beckman, to Adopt this file. Mayor Sandack declared the motion carried by the following vote: Votes: Y ea: Commissioner Schnell, Commissioner Barnett, Commissioner Waldack, Commissioner Durkin, Commissioner Beckman, Commissioner Neustadt and Mayor Sandack  Indexes: Police Department, Fee Increases

ORD 00-04272 C.  Ordinance:  Amend Certain Administrative Fees - Fire Department

Sponsors: Manager's Office

Summary of Item: This amends the Municipal Code regarding Village user-fees, licenses and fines, and corrects code reference inconsistencies.


ORDINANCE NO. 5156 A motion was made by Commissioner Beckman, seconded by Commissioner Neustadt, to Adopt this file.  Mayor Sandack declared the motion carried by the following vote: Votes: Y ea: Commissioner Schnell, Commissioner Barnett, Commissioner Waldack, Commissioner Durkin, Commissioner Beckman, Commissioner Neustadt and Mayor Sandack  Indexes: Fee Increases, Fire Department

ORD 00-04274 D.  Ordinance:  Amend Sunday Hours for On-Premise Consumption of Liquor

Sponsors: Village Attorney and Liquor Commission

Summary of Item: This amends Sunday liquor serving hours for on-premise license holders.


ORDINANCE NO. 5157 C ommissioner Neustadt moved to approve an ordinance amending Sunday hours for on-premise consumption of liquor.  Commissioner Barnett seconded the Motion.

Commissioner Beckman commented that he feels he is at odds with what's being presented.  He appreciates the work done by the Liquor Commission and staff, however he cannot support this type of change on a carte blanche basis.  He can support such a change for hotels and certain full-service restaurants, and even an 11:00 a.m. change for bars, but applying this to all licensees is going too for him.  He comes from a family of tavern owners and innkeepers, and family roots go very deep here.  He feels that Sunday morning is still for family and church.  He will vote no on this because it is a carte blanche change.

Commissioner Schnell concurred with Commissioner Beckman.  She has no problem with this being part of a brunch, but does have a problem of it being part of any liquor license.  She does not think it is in the best interests of the Village. She will vote against this.

Commissioner Waldack said he understood Commissioner Beckman's and Schnell's point.  He agrees there are circumstance where we would want this, such as hotel brunches.  However, he feels this goes too far.  It is not necessary to compete with our neighbors.  He supports this for the hotels.  He said there will be another vote later in the meeting regarding video game licenses; however, the concept of competition does not sway him.  He proposed an amendment to change the Sunday hours for Class H licenses only to 9:00 a.m. Sunday.   Mayor Sandack asked that they consider discussion on the original motion first, and then consider discussion on Commissioner Waldack's proposed amendment.

Commissioner Neustadt said that many business partners have indicated their support for this initiative.  This process has been discussed here and at the Liquor Commission several times, and with their expert guidance he will support this recommended change. The Police Department will enforce this diligently as usual.  He believes this is a way to promote businesses.  Some of the restaurants he spoke with will not open at 9:00 a.m., but will open one hour before sporting events.

Commissioner Barnett said he will support this change as well.  He pointed out that he respects those who don't feel Sunday morning is an appropriate time to consume or purchase alcohol. They are entitled to that belief.  He says it is also worth noting that the Village already allows 8:00 a.m. sale on other days.  He has a hard time legislating the concept of those who recognize Saturday as a day of worship in their life, as opposed to those who recognize Sunday.  It is different for some folks, but for others, absolutely not.  Commissioner Barnett said it is primarily a function of extending something to Sunday that is already available during the week.  He will support it.

Commissioner Durkin said he would also support this.  There have been special licenses given for events on days such as Mother's Day and Father's Day and there have been no problems.  He recalled when packaged goods sales were changed on Sundays, and they have had no problems with that.  Hotels have requested this, and there are many restaurants that would be eliminated by the amendment.  He will support this.

The Mayor said that the Village does not exist in a vacuum.  This ordinance would be similar to those of our surrounding neighbors.  This ordinance would put our proprietors on the same level as neighboring businesses.  Not doing this would be a little bit of a handicap.  The propriety of a 9:00 a.m. license and hours of operation is only as good as the demand.  This was generated by businesses seeking to do wedding receptions, etc., from the hotels, and also included restaurants.  Making it possible only to hotels is an unfair advantage.  He referenced the rules that are in effect.  A proprietor beginning at noon or 9:00 a.m. still has the same rules and requirements to which they must adhere.  Businesses asked that the Village look at this request.  The Mayor also referenced the sales tax environment, saying it is ironic that they would consider hampering the Village by not allowing this.  He said the Village will hold the businesses accountable.  Licensees take their licenses seriously.  He sees no reason to impose hours on the licensees that make no sense.

Commissioner Waldack commented that the Village has information regarding Police activity, and the enforcement staff has been reduced.  There is an enforcement issue here.  He said that this would increase the enforcement need.  He sees part of safety as an enforcement aspect.  This is not just a matter of his thinking other people should not drink.  It is a matter of the Village's enforcement as well.  He would still like to put forth his Motion.

Commissioner Waldack moved to limit 9:00 a.m. drinking hours for Class H and full service restaurants. Commissioner Beckman seconded the Motion.

Commissioner Barnett said that he didn't recall any comments from the Police Department or Legal Department about an anticipated lack of ability to enforce this.

Mr. Fieldman said staff reviewed the proposed changes from the Liquor Commission, and feels they are appropriately staffed to address the proposed change.

Commissioner Neustadt asked if staffing levels would remain as is, and Mr. Fieldman said that is correct.  Commissioner Neustadt said the enforcement issue does not sway him if there are the same amount of officers on the road as previous years.  He believes this will be handled appropriately.

Commissioner Beckman commented that the trouble he is having with the discussion is that on one side they are suggesting there should be a more free and open place and let the market decide.  If they are to do that, why not have no limitations.  If the market decides what makes sense, limitations would not be necessary.  He said that the Village is establishing new limitations.  He thinks they cannot say one thing and do something else.

Commissioner Neustadt reminded that the market asked for this change.

Commissioner Schnell said that whether she has a problem with liquor consumption should not be all about whether or not they are losing sales tax.  It is about whether it is appropriate to have this.   She agrees with Commissioner Beckman that there is nothing wrong with having a Mother's Day brunch, or other event. She has more of a problem with some of the other kinds of licenses.  This does not go to what responsibility is all about.  She said that over the years the Liquor Ordinance has changed, and evolved.  There are facilities that we didn't have years ago.  She is not sure this is in response to being a vibrant town.  She cannot support this.

Commissioner Barnett said that every decision the Council makes is ultimately one that confines, constricts or reduces individual rights. When this body decides to place rules that infringe on the market, every one of those decisions is a balancing act of values, morals, economics, those governed by the rules, etc.  He doesn't understand how these three hours on a Sunday morning are so much different than other times.

VOTE ON AMENDMENT:   AYES: Commissioners Waldack, Beckman, Schnell  NAYS: Commissioners Barnett, Neustadt, Durkin, Mayor Sandack  Motion fails 4:3

VOTE ON UNDERLYING MOTION:  AYES: Commissioner Neustadt, Barnett, Durkin, Mayor Sandack  NAYS: Commissioners Beckman, Waldack Schnell  Motion passed 4:3.   A motion was made by Commissioner Neustadt, seconded by Commissioner Barnett, to Adopt this file. Mayor Sandack declared the motion carried by the following vote: Votes: Y ea: Commissioner Barnett, Commissioner Durkin, Commissioner Neustadt and Mayor Sandack  Nay: Commissioner Schnell, Commissioner Waldack and Commissioner Beckman  Indexes: Liquor Ordinance Amendments

ORD 00-04275 E.  Ordinance:  Amend Recreational Facility License Classifications

Sponsors: Village Attorney and Liquor Commission

Summary of Item: This amends recretional facility license classifications to include indoor golf facilities.


ORDINANCE 5158 A motion was made by Commissioner Durkin, seconded by Commissioner Neustadt, to Adopt this file.  Mayor Sandack declared the motion carried by the following vote: Votes: Y ea: Commissioner Barnett, Commissioner Waldack, Commissioner Durkin, Commissioner Beckman, Commissioner Neustadt and Mayor Sandack  Nay: Commissioner Schnell  Indexes: Liquor Ordinance Amendments

ORD 00-04276 F.  Ordinance:  Create a Gaming Facility Liquor License

Sponsors: Village Attorney and Liquor Commission

Summary of Item: This creates a liquor license classification for gaming facilities.


ORDINANCE NO. 5159 C ommissioner Waldack said he voted in favor of the last action; however, this will allow early morning liquor sales for a video gaming facility and he cannot support this.

Commissioner Schnell added that she will vote against this as well.

Commissioner Beckman said he can support this. The concept of video gaming today is what the bowling alley was 25 years ago, and he can understand why this type of environment can exist beneficially for the citizens and community.  He thinks the concept of video gaming and what it actually is are two different things.

The Mayor commented that this is reflective of times changing and new economic conditions, new entertainment and recreational conditions.  There might be many kids at a video gaming facility, but this doesn't change the responsibilities of the liquor licensee.  Downers Grove expects its licensees to dispense liquor in a manner strict to our rules and if not, there are  consequences.  Just because new licenses are available, the proprietor must show that they are qualified through training and a full understanding of the Village's rules.  The downtown area has changed to the better.  He said that the Village could be more restrictive but, under those conditions, he suspects the downtown would not look like it does today.  The licensees will monitor and adjust as necessary.  This was a unanimous favorable recommendation by the Liquor Commission as were all three ordinances.   A motion was made by Commissioner Durkin, seconded by Commissioner Barnett, to Adopt this file.  Mayor Sandack declared the motion carried by the following vote: Votes: Y ea: Commissioner Barnett, Commissioner Durkin, Commissioner Beckman, Commissioner Neustadt and Mayor Sandack  Nay: Commissioner Schnell and Commissioner Waldack  Indexes: Liquor Ordinance Amendments

8. First Reading

RES 00-04291 A.  Resolution:  Authorize a Contract for Refuse Collection and Recycling Services

Sponsors: Deputy Village Manager

Summary of Item: This authorizes execution of a contract with Allied Waste Services of North America, LLC for refuse collection and recycling services.


RESOLUTION 2010-81 M r. Fieldman said a resolution has been prepared to authorize the contract for refuse collection and recycling services.  This is the first reading, however, this has undergone an extensive public process.  The proposed contract captures the direction of the Village Council in that it retains key elements such as stickers, as well as options for carts.

Deputy Village Manager Mike Baker reviewed some of the key terms.  He said there is a history on the website regarding the process. The contract is a five-year term, and the pricing table is available.  Some of the modifications include the elimination of Amnesty Day for all but year 3.  It provides an option of 35-gallon refuse carts, as well as the larger ones.  Additionally any household that is renting a cart of any size can obtain a 35-gallon or 55-gallon recycling cart as well.  The contract provides parameters whereby some multi-family structures can participate if they meet the qualifications.  He said that should the contract be adopted, staff will work with the vendor to craft the right type of messaging regarding changes.  He said that representatives from Republic are present to answer any questions.

Tom LeCren, 545 Chicago, asked if the recycling cart is mandatory or optional if a resident opts for a cart for garbage.  Mr. Baker said it is optional.

Dr. Gordon Goodman, 5834 Middaugh, expressed his pleasure with this contract, and particularly opening the program to multi-family units and cutting back on Amnesty days.

Mr. Fieldman reiterated to the Mayor that this has been before the Council several times over the past months going back to February.

Commissioner Schnell commented that the five-year contract allows for stability so the residents will know the rates.  She said that the cost of recycling bins is going to be $15 from years 1-3, and $20 from years 4-5.  She asked if this is the current bin or a new one.  Mr. Baker said that is the current bin.  Residents have the options to purchase them elsewhere if they prefer.  He further responded that people who use stickers do not have the option of a recycling cart.

Commissioner Schnell said that under this agreement Amnesty Day will occur the third year into the contract.  She is concerned about going that long without an Amnesty Day.  She asked about the cost of an Amnesty days every other year.  Mr. Baker said it would increase sticker prices by $.03 each, and cart rental by $.12 per month.

Commissioner Neustadt said he is pleased with how this contract came about.  He then referenced the safety of the vehicles, and he asked to make sure that language specifies the importance of safe operation of the vehicles.

Commissioner Waldack said that the loss of Amnesty Day results in lower prices.  He asked about language in the contract regarding Heritage Festival, suggesting changing that language since the Village will not be sponsoring Heritage Festival.

Commissioner Durkin echoed that this has been discussed for several months, and a survey was conducted with over 1,100 responses.  The Council, staff and the provider listened.  Some of the benefits that came about is the toter program which will allow residents to have a recycling toter. He is happy with the 5-year contract, and beginning to allow multi-family use.  Allowing multi-family use is a huge positive step forward.  This is a huge win for everyone.

Commissioner Beckman  stated that one of the items he sees as most beneficial is the ability and willingness of staff and the vendor to come up with a solution that supports everyone in the community.  He tried to approach this with an open mind, and he was most impressed with the survey.  It demonstrated where the community's thoughts were on this issue.

Mayor Sandack said he looks forward to voting on this.  Staff and the vendor, Republic, have been very responsive.  People depend upon this service and it is critical.  Respondents to the survey want to maintain a volume-based system, and better promote recycling.  He said the contract allows for a recycling toter and it cuts down on Amnesty Day.  Amnesty Day is costly and does not promote environmental practices.  Staff has shown resiliency throughout the process.

Commissioner Schnell commented about certain materials that are not appropriate for Amnesty Day, such as paint, and asked about researching ways to dispose or promote proper disposal of these materials.  She recalled that Naperville used to have a facility to recycle paint, but doesn't know if they still do.

The Mayor said that the County does that quite frequently, though that is not as convenient as having it locally.    Indexes: Scavenger-Garbage Collection

MOT 00-04287 B.  Motion:  Award $126,721.44 to Backflow Solutions, Inc., Alsip, IL, for Cross Connection Control On-Site Inspections

Sponsors: Public Works P ublic Works Director Nan Newlon explained this is for an on-site inspection of 1,586 non-residential locations in the Village to be done by licensed inspectors.  The inspection will identify, verify and inventory all existing backflow prevention devices at a non-residential facility, and catalog the information.  She said this is mandated by the Illinois EPA.  An RFP was issued and two responses were received.  Staff recommends awarding the contract to Backflow Solutions, Inc.

Mayor Sandack said that having only two respondents to an RFP is disconcerting.  Ms. Newlon explained that it is a specialized area.  The Mayor then asked who has been an incumbent provider.  Ms. Newlon said this is the first round of inspections, as this is a new regulation.

Commissioner Neustadt said this may be something of which the business community needs to be made aware.  Indexes: Water Service

ORD 00-04288 C.  Ordinance:  Amend Parking Restrictions on Cumnor Road  

Sponsors: Public Works and Transportation and Parking Commission

Summary of Item: This amends parking provisions on portions of Cumnor Road.


ORDINANCE NO. 5160 Ms. Newlon said this action was requested by residents on Cumnor Road to restrict parking on both sides of Cumnor Road between Ogden Avenue and Grant Street.  She said in 2008 the Village enacted daytime parking restrictions on one side of Cumnor Road between 7:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m.  Resident requests and changed uses in this area indicate that the current restrictions are not currently warranted.  The Transportation and Parking Commission (TAP) approved this by a vote of 5-2.  The two dissenting votes wanted to extend this further to Morning Glory Circle.   Indexes: Parking Restrictions - Cumnor Road

ORD 00-04289 D.  Ordinance:  Amend Disabled Parking Provisions on Mochel Drive

Sponsors: Public Works and Transportation and Parking Commission

Summary of Item: This amends disabled parking provisions on portions of Mochel Drive.


ORDINANCE NO. 5161 Ms. Newlon said a request was received from the Downtown Management Corporation to add one designated handicapped parking space at the northwest corner of Curtiss Street and Mochel Drive.  Staff evaluated the location and recommends that this space be added.  The TAP unanimously approved this item. Indexes: Handicapped Parking

ORD 00-04290 E.  Ordinance:  Amend Certain Parking Provisions

Sponsors: Public Works and Transportation and Parking Commission

Summary of Item: This amends loading zone and 2-hour parking provisions on portions of Mochel Drive.


ORDINANCE NO. 5162 M s. Newlon said this concerns parking changes on the east side of Mochel Drive, south of Curtiss, and on the parking deck driveway along the south side of the Charles Place building.  The request came from the Downtown Management Corporation and the owners of Charles Place.  The amendment would convert the three 30-minute loading zones in front of the building on Mochel Drive to three two-hour parking spaces, and convert two two-hour parking spaces on the parking deck driveway to 30-minute loading zones.  The restrictions were put into place at the time when the building was brand new and there were few parking restrictions.  The building is completed and there is a desire for customer parking on Mochel Drive.  Deliveries would be made to the rear of the building.

Commissioner Beckman commented that this would add to the convenience of those who use the building.   Indexes: Parking Restrictions - Mochel Drive

INF 00-04286 F.  Information:  FY11 Budget Discussion

Sponsors: Manager's Office M r. Fieldman said that this is the second of many discussions on the proposed budget.  The first reading was presented in a Workshop Session on October 2, 2010.  There are three main goals in the proposed budget:  A balanced General Fund with no use of reserves, implementation of the recommendations of the Water Fund report, and continued investing in infrastructure improvements using dedicated funding sources.  He said that the General Fund is balanced with revenues and expenses equal through extensive reduction efforts.  There is a proposed increase in the property tax of about $900,000, which is the combination of the Long Range Financial Plan recommended increase for operations in the amount of $500,000, and the balance to cover mandatory pension increases.  He said the budget is available on line and staff will make additional presentations or address questions raised this evening.

Mayor Sandack said that the Council has been involved in the Long Range Financial Planning process for some time.

John Hazard commented about the budget cuts in some of the human services areas.  He would like to see them restored.  He has been in the Village for a third of a century and it is a great place to live, work and raise a family.  This quality of life is due to competent and forward-looking Village leaders, including the present ones.  However, he senses the beginning of a profound and worrisome change.  Cutting food and transportation and wellness checks for seniors is bad, but more unsettling is that some on the Council are contending that the well-being of our weak and vulnerable are in no way a concern to this Village's government. They are saying that so-called "core services" are the only responsibilities they have to the citizens of Downers Grove. That goes way beyond specific budget decisions.  It embeds for now and the future an ideology that says taking care of the weak and vulnerable among us is a job for the private sector only.  It is foolish to think that the private sector alone can shoulder this burden.  One study says that to match what various levels of government in this country are putting into human services, private contributions would have to rise 1900%.  No one including the proponents of this concept believes that is going to happen.  There is a lot more at issue here than restoring a few small cuts.  Those cuts have left the deficit virtually untouched.  He believes what is going on is the intentional setting of a precedent.  If the real reason for the cuts is the core services ideology that some of the Council have already espoused publicly, then there is a lot more at stake here.  If this is left unpatched it will open into a chasm of uncaring.  He asked if we see ourselves still as being all in it together, or will it become a free-for-all and the devil take the high road.  He asked if the Village wants to say to its old and weak "sorry folks, good luck, we're now into the survival of the fittest, which ain't you."  He said that the Village is edging toward some very dark territory.

Mayor Sandack said that a private sector company picked up the tab for the Social and Counseling Services portion of the Village's budget.  Mr. Hazard responded that he was aware of the cut from the budget but not that a private company had taken up the service.  The Mayor said that the company rents that space and they agreed to continue to serve the folks previously served by the Village at the same rates and circumstances if at all feasible.

Mr. Hazard said he was referring to the Meals on Wheels.  The Mayor then said that there are several community organizations such as PADS, Walk in Ministry, etc.  The Mayor said the Village never provided a tax-based subsidy to those organizations.  If there was a tax-payer collected obligation to pick up the expenses, is there a reason why services and dollars should only be allocated to seniors, or the weak, or not domestic abuse victims.  Mr. Hazard said he is only talking about one particular point.  If they are talking about limiting government to core services, that is a heavy problem.  If they are talking about the idea of taking up the responsibility, he doesn't think they should take up everything.  The Mayor said he thinks Mr. Hazard is suggesting that the Village should fund something.  Mr. Hazard asked that they re-fund what had been funded in the past, specifically Meals on Wheels, and restore the taxi supplement.  Mayor Sandack said that the Village does have the taxi supplement of $.50 on a dollar.  Mr. Hazard asked that it be restored to what it was, $.70.  The Mayor asked what area should be cut to pay that.  Mr. Hazard said that he thinks the revenues coming in including the new property tax and the bonds being discussed should have enough money to cover those expenses.  Mayor Sandack explained that the property tax contemplated would go specifically to police, fire and public works.  The Mayor also asked about restoration of the DuPage Senior Citizens Council and how funds would be obtained for that or any other social endeavor.  Mr. Hazard said to pay for it from revenue as they have in the past.  The Mayor said employee expenses have increased, and what happened in the past 20-30 years is no longer structurally possible.  He asked if Mr. Hazard has a new revenue source, and Mr. Hazard said he did not.

Collette Hazard, 1029 S. Blanchard, commented about the Meals on Wheels program.  No neighboring suburbs have opted to totally turn their backs on the Meals on Wheels program and this elimination of support from the Village makes her sad.  She said this is a message that the Village Council feels that the disabled and Senior Citizens don't really matter.  They are not the Village's problem.  She urged the Council to restore the Meals on Wheels and wellness checks for seniors instead of saying "You're not our responsibility."  She said funding these programs is about $3 per year for the average homeowners if they knew what was being proposed.  She asked that the programs be supported with Downers Grove dollars.  She understands that the Village doesn't have the money it once had.  Senior citizens did the volunteering, provided financial help and now that they don't have ability to help, they are not supported at all, and she asked that the Council reconsider this.

Mary Hason, 5720 Hillcrest said that choices were made when looking at the budget, and she would like some things reinstated, such as Meals on Wheels and transportation aid allowing seniors to remain in their homes instead of going to institutional care.  Seniors support various subsidies for businesses and a huge percentage of their taxes go to the educational system.  Those who have children in public schools get a portion of the taxes for education.  Tax paying seniors do not get a piece of the education subsidy.  She noted that it is hard to provide senior subsidies that allow them to meet their basic needs and stay in their homes.

Stephanie Palubicki, 1060 Black Oak Drive, said that she understands the budget is a difficult job for the Council.  She works with senior citizens and wanted to speak as an advocate.  There are people passionate about needs of seniors.  The Council is working hard to keep the Police and Firefighters basic services afloat.  Everyone is making sacrifices.  Her household will take a 20% cut in pay this year.  She doesn't want to see police and fire get a cut in pay, but everyone is making sacrifices.  She is speaking for those who are not speaking for themselves.  She sees people everyday who struggle, who do not have family members, who do not have money for taxis.  She believes it would take a handful of change to keep the taxi funds going.  Many people think that senior lives today are the beautiful dormitories or private vans available to some who are more well-to-do and comfortable.  That is not reality for most seniors because they do not have the family members to help them out, or the $20 for a taxicab ride.  Dollars just do not stretch for them any more.  She wants to be an advocate to reinstatement of the taxi program because it makes a difference.

Commissioner Beckman said that he shared some affinity with the comments made.  He doesn't expect anyone else in the community to have the same depth of knowledge of the Village's budget or planning cycle, or for one of the Council members to ask where the money could be.  He thinks the question is whether this is something the community finds to be important.  A request was received from the Senior Citizens Council for the Council to revisit this because there have been no other sources available.  His personal experience with older persons is that, while they may be offered frozen means, often they don't eat that food and it sits in that freezer.  It is not being consumed.  He believes it would be worthwhile for the Council to go through the painful process of trying to find whether, from a values perspectives, it makes sense for the Village to participate in one very small item.  He understands those who think this is not part of the core.  He believes supporting those not as fortunate as others is as close to the core as to why they are here, as to anything else in this world.

Commissioner Durkin asked Commissioner Beckman  where the money would come from.  Where do they draw the line.  He wants an answer, and he hears people wanting items restored, but the question remains as to where the funds will come from.  He asked how much they have to increase property taxes to meet those needs.  He thinks they are all on the same page, and they want to restore things, but they must come up with a source.

Commissioner Beckman said it seems as they have moved toward the end of the year that there have been opportunities to take advantage of money we have found.  He understands the difference between capital funds and operating funds.  He believes there are opportunities to manage the budget, and they can let the staff know their intention.  He believes the Meals on Wheels program is about $40,000.

Commissioner Durkin said that $40,000 is a police officer or a non-union employee.  He wants to know what the source of the funds would be besides raising taxes.

Commissioner Beckman responded that the Council sets priorities and that establishes the budget.  He would like to think in terms of a philosophical issue.  He wants staff to be asked to find some way to fund this.

Commissioner Durkin responded that this is not a balanced budget.  They are raising property taxes and that is why the budget is balanced.  They are not replenishing monies from the reserves.  To take the approach of having staff look further into this has not been successful.

Commissioner Beckman said in his mind this is not a reduced cost issue, but a philosophical issue.

Commissioner Schnell agreed that it is a philosophical issue.  What has made the Village unique is its ability to support a diverse community.  Meals on Wheels is not just for seniors, but for any individual who is incapable of supplying themselves with food.  Anyone might need Meals on Wheels at some time in their lives.  She said whether they were to do the full $40,000 or less, she thinks they could find $10,000 in this budget.  Staff would find the money if so directed.  She said it is whether we are committed to doing that.  She feels strongly about that, and thinks that they each need to respect each other's opinion and not become argumentative about it.  Commissioner Schnell said they kept the taxi subsidy program intact last year because there is value to it. She thinks there is value to the Meals on Wheels program as well.  Any money would go a long way to help the program. They do not have to fully fund it.  She is in favor of finding funding for this.

Commissioner Durkin responded that he respects everyone, and he fully understands the burden of caring for seniors in need, but this all comes down to the money.

Commissioner Schnell urged the Council members to listen to one another.

Commissioner Neustadt said that the microscope has been out and it is difficult to fund $10,000.  Something else would be affected by that money.  For example, residents might not get responses to their inquiries as quickly as they would like.  The Council has to set expectations.  It is important to figure out where every dollar goes.  We have to decide and prioritize how the funds are used.  The budget as presented is what he is leaning toward.   The Council does look at every line item. He has not heard about taxi subsidies and Meals on Wheels from the public to date.

Commissioner Beckman agreed that this dialogue should have taken place earlier.  It is a matter of priorities as a Council.  It is important to arrive at a budget as a unit, not as "us" versus "them."  He thinks this does have a higher priority.

Commissioner Waldack said he is glad that they are having this conversation.  He thanked the residents who came to speak.  He referenced the refuse contract and the response of residents which moved the Village away from a toter refuse program.  Last year all the cuts were equal in cost to about a can of soda a month.  This year he is looking to less than a can of soda a month.  He used copy paper as an example, and if each sheet used in a ream was $1.00, it would be $500, or the Village's portion of the tax bill.  The Meals on Wheels program at $25,000 on a tax bill would cost $1.00.  A restoration of the taxi-subsidy program in the amount of $40,000-$50,000 on the tax bill would cost $2.00.  That would be a total of $3.00 for meals on Wheels, which includes well-being checks, and the taxi subsidy.  A trip to the Wheaton Eye Clinic costs a month's worth of transportation.  The average Village portion of the tax bill would be $500.   An average resident's tax bill is $5,000. He showed, using paper reams, what the tax bill would represent.  He is looking for $3 to fund worthwhile programs, safety net programs.  Commissioner Waldack said he realizes that 3/4 of the tax bill goes to the school system and children, including a nutrition program for students and a nursing program.  Children have a nutrition program and well-being check every day.  The Village has 8,000 senior citizens and disabled people in the community, and 75% of their taxes goes to the schools.  They would like a little bit of that money to go to their fellow seniors and people with disabilities for Meals on Wheels and taxi subsidies.  The Village has a $39 million budget.  However, he is sure that they can find some money for basic food and transportation. On the expense side of the budget are fire prevention, fire education and EMS services in an amount of $800,000.  In that $800,000 he is sure they can find $25,000 for Meals on Wheels, etc.  This relates to core services as it includes well-being checks.  On the revenue side, the Village passed new fees for ambulance services tonight.  Why can't they take $24,000 of that revenue to help people stay in their homes and have well-being services.  He believes this is part of core services, it is philosophical and it is responsible.  He asked if they add $3 whether it would hurt the Village's fiscal sustainability.  He believes they can do better and they have an opportunity to do so.  If they want to do this, they can.

Commissioner Durkin asked about contributions on the water bill, and earmarking it for specific costs.

Commissioner Barnett said this talk is about the weak, vulnerable and less fortunate, and that they are not a concern to the Council and that seniors are not mattering.  The question is not the validity of the needs, but why this and not that.  In considering the community as a whole, he has a hard time forgetting about PADS recipients, the unemployed, abused people, children in need.  There are plenty of people in this community who are in dire need of help, and any of these are worthy.  He agrees they can find $25,000, and if they tell staff to do so, they will, because they have already exhibited that.  But, he asked, why those groups?  PADS would benefit from our help.  Those are people who tax our EMT services all the time, and they need our help.  He referenced numerous e-mails from people who cannot afford an increase of $5.00 for garbage pickup.  We need $25,000 for ten or twelve groups.  This is a fair discussion.  His opinion is that they should not try to find money for one preferred group.  Property tax is not covering half of the police and fire staff costs.  His suggestion from last week is a way to start addressing this.  Any number of people could demonstrate a need and it would be a new number every week.  He doesn't see that we have that ability to address all of the needs.  He doesn't think it's right to prioritize. The PADS people are not speaking there tonight because frankly they are sleeping on a bench, and that's not fair.  He cannot support carving out a specific bit of funding for one particular group.  He would support lots of things they can try and engage in if they can find a way to rally the community as a whole to attack more of these problems.  But he cannot support taking property tax dollars and giving it to one preferred group at the moment.

Commissioner Beckman said the difference, from his perspective, is that the group that doesn't have the ability to work any more is on a fixed income.  That is quite different from those who have time available to them to recover, who are at a far different time in their life.

Commissioner Waldack said that in the past he has volunteered to evaluate organizations for United Way for funding.  One of the criteria is a multiple source of funding.  The Senior Citizens Council is that type of organization.  They do receive State and County funds, utilize volunteers, etc.  Many communities also contribute.  In evaluating a place you look at community support.  The fact that Downers Grove does not support it is a check mark against the Village and an embarrassment.  Some of our seniors are in such bad shape that they get frozen meals.  We are not contributing to them.  We should be embarrassed.  He said that the Village takes advantage of the situation by not contributing.  Everyone has budget problems.

Mayor Sandack commented that some of the words spoken by Mr. Hazard were harsh.  The Mayor was waiting for a solution and said he didn't hear one.  He took the comments at their word, as he takes Commissioners Schnell, Waldack and Beckman at their word.  He asked if they think this is something that the other four Council members do not wish to do, or that they take pleasure in not funding the groups.  To suggest that would be untenable on their part.  He then reviewed the discussion, saying he heard people say find $10,000, or find $25,000 which is an instruction without direction.  It is incumbent upon the Council to do its job.  Staff gave the Village the budget they requested.  He said he has looked up some websites, and found that the DuPage Senior Center Council is a not-for-profit organization based on volunteer support, and it is a wonderful and relevant endeavor.  DuPage PADS charter is every bit as noble.  The Family Shelter Service is devoted to helping abused women and their families.  These are a few of the many worthy organizations that touch the lives of people.

Mayor Sandack said he thinks that community embarrassment is misplaced, as the Village has a long history of contributions, some of which were well beyond what was expected.  He is unaware of any contributions to PADS, United Way, Family Services, Amvets, etc.  There are hundreds of good charitable organizations.  Commissioners Schnell, Beckman and Waldack want to fund something that has always been done to the exclusion of other organizations.  That troubles him.  To find money means there is a cut somewhere and ultimately it becomes personnel.  He believes the Commissioners are sincere, but they are suggesting making a contribution with general tax dollars to private organizations.  Other organizations will come before Council and ask for funding.  The question is not whether it is valid, but is it valid to the exclusion of other organizations,  If so, then it is up to a Council member to make that Motion.  This is the kind of conversation that no one wants to have.  He apologized if he sounded like he was attacking or cross-examining Mr. Hazard,  but he felt as though he was under attack because it felt coordinated or contrived.  For over a year the Village has tried to do more with less.  If they are going to find the money, then the Motion must be made and four votes must support it.  He said that he believes it is lazy on the part of Council to say staff can find the money.  There is also no truth to the argument that some on the Council care and others do not.   That is an unfair concept without a grain of truth,  He said it needs to be dispensed of now.  He would like an idea as to how this can be funded, otherwise it is untenable.  If four votes can support a concept, then they can move forward.  He encouraged people to communicate with the Council on this issue.  He suggested that maybe the Village should make this a qualified bid using the Village's infrastructure for contributions.

Commissioner Durkin mentioned a volunteer concept, through Human Service Commission, to connect churches and not-for-profit organizations to do what government cannot do any more.  He thought the idea instilled some hope and positive energy toward the idea of building a volunteer basis organization for social services.

Commissioner Beckman said he would like to further discuss how to structure Commissioner Barnett's suggestion.  The Mayor said that Commissioner Barnett raised this as New Business, and this can be further investigated.

Commissioner Schnell commented that what was discussed last week is a worthwhile endeavor, but there are current needs that cannot be fulfilled.  The Senior Citizens Council asked for our funding and provided information as to the consequences.  She believes they need to move forward and look at every option, but they also need to do some funding in the present.

Commissioner Waldack said he was making a proposal of adding $3 on the tax bill.  The Mayor asked if he wanted to add $3 to what is already increased.  Commissioner Waldack said they could use the reserve fund and stick to the Long Range Financial Plan, and use the rainy day fund that was used last year.  Or they could look at the EMS, Fire Prevention and Fire Education fund on the expense side, or look at the ambulance revenue as a source.

The Mayor asked if anyone wants to increase the levy as it has already been increased $500,000 through the Long Range Financial Plan.  No one wanted to increase taxes, and no one wanted to dip into the reserve funds.

Commissioner Durkin suggested tabling this and taking a week to get ideas to the Mayor and Manager.

The Mayor said there will be plenty of opportunities for further discussion either at weekly meetings, Coffee with the Council, or budget discussions.  He wants people to come through with specifics.   The Manager said that staff will be happy to take comments for next week's budget discussion.

Commissioner Barnett wanted confirmation for consensus for a four-hour commitment for the Human Service Commission idea.  That is not intended to be part of the current budget discussion.  His ideas are far from implementation.

Commissioner Neustadt said they have to be specific on dollars and line items on everything, not just Meals on Wheels.   Indexes: Budget - 2011

9. Mayor's Report

 Materials to be Received

 Materials to be Placed on File

10. Manager's Report

11. Attorney's Report

Village Attorney Enza Petrarca said she was presenting three items to the Council:  1)  An ordinance amending parking restrictions on Cumnor Road; 2)  An ordinance amending disabled parking provisions on Mochel Drive; and 3)  An ordinance amending certain parking provisions. Future Active Agenda

12. C ouncil Member Reports and New Business

Commissioner Neustadt said that Chief Jackson and he rode together in the Silent Parade which received great support from the residents.  The Night at the Firehouse last week was enjoyable and he was able to dress in turnout gear to fight a fire.  He thanked the Firefighters for their commitment to the community.

Commissioner Beckman said that early voting began yesterday at Village Hall.  Saturday is Coffee with the Council at 9:00 a.m. at Fire Station 2.  He will be unable to attend, but encouraged attendance by the public.  Mr. Fieldman said the topic will be the FY-11 budget.

Commissioner Waldack said Sunday is the 25th Annual Walk for Hunger. Registration is at 1:30 p.m. at Gloria Dei Church, and the step off is at 2:00 p.m.  Twenty-five percent of the funds will go to local organizations.

Commissioner Schnell noted that Saturday is the last Farmer's Market, and it has been great this year.

Commissioner Durkin echoed the comments about the Fire Prevention Week.  It illustrated the dangers our personnel put themselves through in fighting a fire. He opted out of wearing the gear because of the breathing apparatus and claustrophobic atmosphere, so he was at the end of the hose. He said it reinforced his understanding of the dedication of the firefighters to their jobs and their communities.   He participated in the Silent Parade, and thanked the people at Station 1 for allowing him to ride in the fire engine with them in the parade.  Coming into the Village and seeing residents who supported the parade flying flags, shining flashlights, etc., was wonderful  He would like to see more people attend the service at the church in Lisle at future events.

The Mayor said the discussion earlier became a bit heated, and he admittedly contributed to that, but he wanted to stress that to get a budget process concluded takes guts and fortitude.  Lots of groups do great work, and throwing these groups some money is what got the Village into some trouble in the past.  Fiscal responsibility means establishing priorities to the exclusion of others.  If they could do everything, he thinks there is no one who would disagree.  He knows that there are large numbers of needy people in the town; however, the Council cannot address everything.  It will lead to fiscal irresponsibility.  He asked everyone to think through and past the emotion about what this tribunal and Council can do.  

13. Adjournment

Commissioner Schnell moved to adjourn.  Commissioner Barnett seconded the Motion.

Mayor Sandack declared the motion carried by voice vote and the meeting adjourned at 10:06 p.m.